" TO pay or not to play...that is the question..."

[KP Phagnasay]

ALoha everyone, This was taken from a friend in Hawaii who gave very helpful advice for inspiring actors... I modify some changes to fit us here in the Central Valley.


1) NEVER PAY FOR ACTING WORK. Never pay anyone to get you Acting work. This includes ALL fee-based websites which are all a rip-off. Be especially aware of fee-based websites advertised at Craigslist.org under "gigs -talent". They are all scams. Don't waste your hard earned money joining them. If you audition for some project and they ask you to pay in order to be involved....don't go for the project.( Demo reel or not, it's not worth it). Often, low budget, no budget film makers will give a demo reel as payment to the actor. That's fine, as it's considered a trade.

**** SAG Actors, it is against SAG rules to pay fees of any kind for Acting jobs.

Should you choose to pay to play, then get it in writing for you to get a percentage of the profits from the film. By paying into the film, you are now an investor. If you get a deferral, make sure it's in writing as well. Don't let others profit from your time and talent.Think about it. When you go to a job interview, you give a resume, and application. If they asked you to pay for the interview, would you??? Probably Not. If they asked you to pay to get the job, would you? No. Why, because you should get hired for the job due to your talents, and be paid for it, not paying them to hire you. That's backwards.

2) GET PHOTOS MADE. You will need some photos to take to Casting & Talent Agencies when you register with them. A color head and shoulders shot of yourself in 5" x 7" or 8" x 10" format is recommended. You should have on hand about 10 of each at all times. The cheapest way is to get a friend with lots of patience and understanding to take photos of you with a quality digital camera of at least 6 megapixels. Take lots of pictures under different lighting settings and with different clothing and hair and make-up, until you get it just right. Take at least a 100 photos and you should find one really good one that you can use and blow up to 8 x 10. Use the software "Adobe Photoshop" to touch up any blemishes, but very sparingly. Try and keep the chosen photo as natural as possible. A quality ink-jet printer (as cheap as $100) can print very professional-looking photos.
You can also use the services of a Professional Photographer or Studio, but:
a) Shop around. Compare prices. Don't hire the first Photographer.
b) There are rip-off Photographers out there, so be cautious, get any agreement in writing.
c) Ask to see previous work (very important).
d) Ask exactly what the price includes - number of prints etc. - get it in writing.
e) Check with the BBB (Better Business Bureau) to see if the Photographer has had any complaints filed against them.
f) Do not have resume photos done for free in return for nude shots of you. Obviously this is a scam and you should file a complaint against the Photographer right away with the BBB. Or file a complaint with State of California, Office of Consumer Protection, Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs.
g) Contact the Police immediately if you feel you have been sexually harassed in any way before, during, or after a photo shoot. A professional Photographer will NEVER touch you in any way before, during, or after a photo shoot, except to shake your hand and say "Nice to meet you", "Thank You" or "Goodbye".

3. REGISTER WITH ALL CASTING AGENCIES. Register with all the local Casting Directors/Agencies . Call first for instructions on how to register. DO NOT show up in person without an appointment. There are no fees to register. Bring your photos, body measurements (write them down on a piece of paper) and a list of any special skills (French Language, Singing, Juggling, Martial Arts, Horseback riding etc.) , a list of wardrobe that you own (Police Uniform, Clown suit, Nurse's outfit etc.) and a list of props that you own (Motorcycle, Suitcase, Surfboard etc.). The more special skills, wardrobe and props that you have - the better the chances of you being hired.

4. TAKE ACTING CLASSES. Train,train,train!!!!! Call or email first for class information. Never say you know enough. SOme of the veteran actos continue to take classes to get better in their craft.

5. CREATE YOUR OWN WEBSITE.You should also set up your own website which contains your photos and your resume. Having your own website is especially useful when you call a Casting Director for work, and they are either unfamiliar with you or need to see your photos and resume right away.

6. CHECK CRAIGSLIST. Check occasionally with Craigslist.org under "jobs - tv / film / video". Also under "gigs - talent". However, don't waste your hard earned money joining fee-based websites, they are all scams. Always check the pay for the acting job first! If there is no pay - forget it! You deserve better. Caution is advised on all these Craigslist.org jobs as sometimes the job does not exist and they are just collecting email addresses of Actors, so they can mass email Actors later to join a rip-off fee-based website. Remember, Rule #1 is "NEVER pay anyone to get you Acting work". #2 never pay to work, you are a craftsman, get paid for your craft, or trade for your service.


REMEMBER be PROACTIVE in your career!!!! I hope this is helpful...and you can find similar advice from any reputable agency.Stay tuned for more KP's ACTORS GYM

[Bryan Harley]

Good advice. But I don't know about the "NEVER do acting work for free." I recommend considering it on a case by case basis, especially when dealing with local FILM/NARRATIVE projects. Some producers/directors have great material, but just don't have the budget to pay.

[KP Phagnasay]

Thanks, I actually meant it to be you can trade for credit, and/or reel. That's cool. It's still a type of payment. We all have done this for projects we like, for experience, for friends, connections. KP

[Bryan Harley]

Yeah, exactly. Credit/reel for sure.

[Jeff Meacham]

I need to disagree with the fee-based websites and the "No Pay" acting jobs as they have both paid off BIG for me personally! They are not all scams!



I pay on two sites in L.A. and have made 20-30 times that of the small fee they charge me yearly. One lets me submit across the whole Nation! I feel if you shoot at 10 targets and land one great role it is worth it! I would rather go for it and find out it doesn't work than to miss the opportunity. This has been the secret to my success! I have been on some pathetic calls, but have made some awesome networking contacts on some of them. If I would missed out on some of the not so good auditions that I went to I might have missed the great acting roles I have done.

While we need to be some what cautious I have made some great contacts and landed great acting jobs from some those contacts of those stupid calls I went on and didn't get. Every auditions is also a learning tool as well and experience to better equip you for the next audition!

I play Spiderman across the Nation for Marvel Characters because of one these calls and it pays great! (Public Appearances)

Good INTEGRITY and Marketing is what has brought me a long way is this crazy business that we love so much! I give God credit as well! (My Angels might be overworked and want to quit)

Carpe Diem!

Jeff Meacham

Cast & Crew Films

[KP Phagnasay]

Thank you Jeff for responding.
I want to make it clear, I wasn't talking about casting call websites, such as Actor Access, LA Casting, ETC. Those are websites, where you pay a membership fee and have access to the site, and sides. Film makers and directors use them because they can put the sides there and it eliminates staff positions. Usually you get unlimited access and submissions. This saves on their budget. Still those are a great resources to be sure. And it gives you a lot of exposure. I think that is what you were talking about and what you have been successful with.
I am talking about Paying to be in a film (or on stage). Where an actor is giving a film company money to be in the film. They are not investors, and will not be able to profit should the film do well, such as dvds sales or even on youtube, gathering sponsorships. That's where this discussion is pointing at.
I am seeing an alarming number of people who want to be in something so bad and get sucked into a money pit. Anyone with a video camera or even a good camera with video capacity and editing software can place a video on Youtube, etc. usually free. To pay anything for that seems unlawful, unethical and scammish. What are they paying for? Can actors buy a lead if offering lots of money, over someone who can only pay $200 but has great skills? How is that for integrity? Who has the control? Once a cast has paid , do they get to attend the budget meetings and get a say on what should cost what? Are they paying for a script, do they decide on one? How about hiring people like a director or editor? Are they paying for locations????? Costumes???? Crew???? food on the set???? If you have 20 people paying $200-$300 each (atleast) that's $4000-and up. Youtube is free, most have a video camera, a film student would do it for cred and demo. Look at Ryan Higa (shaka to the Island boys!) who used his own camera and friends. That was free and he ended up being a YouTube star. So again, where is the money going in these pay to play films? Why would anyone want to shoot a $4k-and up film for youtube???? Who decided on the project beforehand if everyone is paying to play. That shows not a consensus but a single control. I would watch that. Because that’s who is collecting the money and who is most likely profiting from it.
If its a bad film, it won’t generate many hits and it's Youtube is all about current fads .Popular first hour, gone the next. If the goal is to compete, and show talent, it should go to independent film festivals to get real exposure. Low budgets that are very creative do well. But again, if the demand calls for dvd sales, who signed a contract for a percentage of profits? Which actor or production personnel gets a piece of the pie? Do these pay to play actors sign a release of their image as well as hand over their money??? I don't see them getting much out of this approach. They should do student films, and get experience with a camera not paying to be cast in a film. Student film makers are always looking for talent. No pay but they offer actors the experience, demo/credit.
I have seen this on stage as well. Where they are cast actors usually kids as a "tree" and pay a high fee to participate in a community production that is non profit. They are not getting t-shirts, comp tickets, or a piece of the profit. No classes , just pay to play a " tree". The lead roles are often precast. This money goes straight into salaries, and overhead. If the production was under a tight budget,and ticket sales were good, then I can’t see a need to charge a performer who you need to have for a successful show.

[KP Phagnasay]

I went on Carolyn Devore's Website, and I came across her blog/opinion in 2006 (?) on this same subject.
I hope you all read it. She has been in this business for a long time, so it was wonderful to see her view on this as well.

http://blog.devoretalent.com/paying-to-be-in-a-film-or-video-are-yo...

[Shane Foster]

My only slight disagreement with KP on this is if you have no experience and don't go to acting classes and you keep getting turned down, it might be a good idea to make a reel with a hired director.

I have seen it many where people have to submit a reel and if they don't have one, they can't really apply. If it's a home video poorly shot and poorly directed, they have even less chance of getting a job. Ideally you would take classes, but sometimes paying to play, getting the experience of being in front of a camera with a director behind it can be a cheap form of acting class.

An acting class only goes so far. Some times real experience is worth every penny! Just make sure the people working on the film can be vouched for. Ask around, or check their credits on imdb.com and see if they have done anything, or are doing anything, or if they are just trying to make money!

A person who keeps working in the business is getting those jobs for a reason. Once you have a decent reel and some great headshots, you shouldn't worry about paying for anything except more prints to hand out, or gas for the trip to and from the casting call.

As far as headshots go, there are tons of photographers that do them for really reasonable rates, so let me know if you need some! :) I know it's a shameless plug!

[Hector Gomez Jr]

I AGREE KP, WHY THE HELL WOULD SOMEBODY PAY TO BE ON A FILM WHEN YOUR INVESTING MONEY ON GETTING THE BEST ACTING CLASSES, HEADSHOTS AND RESOURCES TO LAND "PAYING" LEGIT JOBS.
JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE

[De Vore Talent and Casting]

Hollywood Mentor - Carollyn De Vore here - there are numerous websites you can submit
your headshot and resumes to - but you are still not getting the information Hollywood
Agents get - I do alot of casting in Hollywood and we often put out a breakdown for
a role and get thousands of submissions - you get lost in the shuffle - When you
land a Hollywood Agent - you don't pay to send out your photos and resumes...
Agents do that for you - yes I was one of those agents for 12 years in Hollywood.

Everyone needs to have a Hollywood Agent in order to have a "real career".
I get thousands of photos and reels at my Hollywood Office monthly - like agents
do - thousands - don't spin your wheels - Get good Training - great Headshots -
and I promise I will have a FREE workshop for all of you - "How to present a
create a professional Hollywood resume " I will try to do that in November.
Seeing over 200 actors for Finding Hope Now - as the Casting Director this
summer - I have 12 resumes that are proper -
I am here to help. Your not going to get discovered on the "Web" - I get
hundreds of those projects a week to submit actors on - ( I would not allow
my children on a web series - with their names out there ) scarey.
Lots of Actors have "Reels" but wait till you get an agent or get to be
a member of SAG or Aftra -Equity to get one. I have a client that just came
in from New York Academy of Dramatic Arts - he has a reel -

So many Casting Directors in Hollywood - still request ( Hard Copy - photo
and resumes ) that's what we want you to send over to our studio in
Fresno - then our staff will submit your photos as projects come to us.

The only other profession I was interested in was being a Police Officer.
So guess that is my protective mode for all you parents with chiildren
out there - don't over expose them.
Last nght I saw my daughter as a Teen Actress in "Iron Eagle" on TV -
what a fun set - and every "Eagle" on that shoot - is still working in
Show Business - "Hiatus Ranch" carollyn de vore

[KP Phagnasay]

Hi Shane, Thanks for joining in. Bare with me as I am passionate on this subject, this is a lengthy response. I am answering Shane but also challenging others who are reading this.
I don't think you are out of line in the sense of an actor hiring personally a director, cameraman to film just them performing something for an audition submission piece. That could be placed into something like headshots? You ‘d probably get a better quality reel. One of my first demos was performing a monologue with a home camera. LOl! Not the best, but free. It was my acting I was submitting so I made sure it was clear enough, heard and seen (up close). I also added stage performances after that. I got invited to audition with that reel, and my live audition got me the jobs.
Casting Directors know everyone starts out with nothing. If you fit the roles they are looking for, that’s all that matters to them. However, if an actor is doing a pay to play film for a submission and it’s crappy (lines, editing, role), or they are not good film actors, don’t bother to train for it either, that won’t help them showcase their talents. They will just show crap. If an actor isn’t film trained, not on their resume, it works against them when someone else with the same look, quality comes in with atleast that . Who wants to work with someone who requires a lot of training on the fly? In a budgeted film, time is money, and most deadlines have to be met. So another question here is ,“ acting workshops or pay to play roles to use for a reel?” If they both cost about the same, which is of more value and will give the actor longevity? I will put this out there- crappy training and crappy videos will only serve as expensive lessons! People do scam off of both. They lure with a casting call then start talking fees after they cast you. For example, I’d only have to mention “modeling agency” and people know who this is and how they prey on people’s dreams to model.
You get one shot at making the first impression when you submit/ audition. Either one can slam the door. Doing it half-assed without research of who you are being trained by (look at their training/experiences) or who is behind a film company will give you grief. Many veteran actors still train while working or not. They take classes. They don’t always get the jobs either. Why? They didn’t fit the part. If an actor wants to get into this, treat it seriously and deal with rejection, that’s a big part of it. Keep auditioning- you get better at it. Many actors work their day jobs so they can pay for classes at night that have them working in front of a camera. They get better, and get connections. So why not take that money and instead of a pay to play Video, get trained, then film your showcase for free by a friend. Cameras are so much better now than when I shot my reel. Taightus put his showcase up here. He has 300 hits? That’s half of the YouTube hits I’ve seen for a pay to play. It only has him and another actress. Granted I couldn’t hear every line, and the person filming sat back, but learn from that- and get better footage. Film it before performing the showcase. Put that on Youtube. It’s free. Research successful actors, see what they did, how long it took. Not every “over night “sensation was really that. You will find years of training, and rejection before success.
The other thing that is happening is calling a video that only gets less than a few 1000 hits a “Major Film” credit. I’ve seen family videos up there with more hits. I guess we could call them reality shows??? Why not put that on a resume and make a reel? Is this dishonest? Maybe, but it’s free.
When you cast for your film, what will you look for? I am guessing the person who is the better actor over those who are not. Demo or not. As for film making, I want to go back to the original question of Pay to Play but with the angle of looking at the product. In your film Shane, you only have a few roles to cast, would you starting altering your script and get those who would’ve been rejected in it too and ask them to pay to play in it? Make money off of them? What kind of movie making does this do to artistic vision and product? Would you consider it a legit film because a camera was involved? By saying it’s okay to pay to play, even for a reel, it gives legitimacy to this. If every film maker started doing this, what kind of films would be out there? Would actors even want to be in a business where they have to pay to work instead of being paid for their work? Would you pay someone in order for you to shoot on their film ?? How could you make a living doing so? I say it devalues each artist regardless of level. Preys on the desperate and hurts the industry as a whole.
I took this off a blog, they called themselves Anonymous Cowards.”When artistic decisions about a movie are made not on the basis of what is right for the movie and made on the basis of who is willing to pay to be in it, it seems a little bit like a losing battle. The idea should be to make the best film possible.”

[Shane Foster]

That is pretty much what I was saying, except that acting is not all about the actor. The director has a lot to do with it, otherwise there wouldn't be a category for best director. A director can see what is being shot while the actor only feels it. A good director can take what you feel and give a little advice and make what you are feeling translate onto the screen. Someone who knows how to light a scene and knows the psychology of color, and camera, can emphasize that scene even more. This is what made me passionate about cinematography. I realized I could take a bad actor, and with a little care, and proper camera placement and possibly movement, I could make a sad performance much better.

Have you ever watched behind the scenes and thought how awful the actor looked, but then when you watched the movie, you were amazed at how much better the performance was? That has much to do with the cinematography.

My point was, do the research. Find out about other actors experiences with these companies and ask if it has helped their career. Look up a company or the person directing/filming and see what credits they have. That will tell you a great deal about how much experience the have. Then if they've passed both of those tests, call them and as what they have to offer, and ask for examples. See if that is something you want to be a part of. If so, you may want to pay to be a part of that experience. If not, then don't!

My whole point out of this is to be educated! Don't just assume everything is legit, however, there are some goldmines right here in Fresno that can really help your acting career. I recommend acting class first. Then if after you take classes and you're still not getting work, film yourself to see what is wrong. If you still don't get work, hire a director and crew to help pull a performance out of you in a unique way that you didn't think about. If it's just some short webisode, either don't pay, or pay as if you were going to a theme park. You pay for the fun and experience of it, nothing more.

[Bryan Harley]

Just wanted to chime in to say I agree with KP on this whole-heartedly. Don't pay to get a role. That's not how this industry works. Be suspicious of anyone that tries to tell you otherwise.

Now... paying an editor to cut you a reel, sure, that's another thing. Pay a director/dp to film a scene you wrote for a demo reel, fine. I have buddies that do this in LA. But honestly, don't start off by doing this. Take some classes, go on some auditions first.